Ibn Taymiyya says Khidr is Alive
By Ibn Saad on Sep 20, 2007 in Biographical Entries | 4,630 article views
By Ibn Saad
(Special Thanks to Tilmeedh of Sunniforum)
The Sheikh (Ibn Taymiyyah) - Rahimahullah - was asked:
“Was Khidr (as) a Prophet or a Wali? And is he alive to the present day? And if he is alive, then what do you say about what has been narrated about the Prophet saying “Had he been alive, he would surely have visited me”? Is this hadith sahih or not?”
And the Sheikh answered:
As for his Prophethood: then after the advent of the Messenger of Allah 
(s), neither he nor anyone else received wahi (revelation). As for before the advent of the Messenger of Allah (s), then people have differed regarding the question of his Prophethood. Those who say that he was a Prophet do not say that he gave up his Prophethood, rather they say he is a Prophet like Ilyas (as), and that he does not get any wahi in this time. And the absence of wahi for a specified period does not invalidate Prophethood, just as the Messenger (s) did not receive any wahi at times during the span of his Messengerhood.
And the majority of the ‘ulema believe that he was not a Prophet… [the Sheikh then goes on to describe the ranks of the Prophets and the Sideeqs]
And as for [the question regarding] his life: then he is alive . And the hadith is question [my note: the hadith in the question posed to the Sheikh] has no basis, and no isnad is known for it either. On the contrary, what has been narrated in Musnad Al-Shafi’i and other books is that [Khidr] did meet the Prophet (s). And as for he who says he did not meet the Prophet (s) then he has stated what he has no knowledge of, for this is from the knowledge that he does not encompass. And he who claims he died relying on the hadith “Have you seen this night of yours? At the end of one hundred years after this none would survive on the surface of the earth” then there is no proof for him in it, for it it is possible that Khidr was not on the surface of the earth at that moment [my note: also, there were Muslims in Abyssinia and Muslim women and children back in Madinah. Hence this was not a general statement] .
Also, regarding Dajjal - and similarly Al-Jasasa - the sahih is that he was alive and present during the era of the Prophet (s), and he is alive till today not having escaped (from his chains), and he is on an island from the islands of the Oceans.
So the responses concerning (Dajjal) is the response for Khidr as well: And that is: the phrase ’surface of the earth’ does not apply. Or that the Prophet (s) meant the the known human beings. And those who are special cases do not enter the generality, just like the Jinns don’t enter it - unless a word was used that encompassed both Jinns and humans.
And examples of specifications like this are many. Wallahu A’lam.
(Arabic: http://al-eman.com/Islamlib/viewchp.asp?BID=252&CID=76#s2s)
On Sep 21, 2007, Abul Layth said:
Shaykh Gibril Haddad was asked:
Is Al-Khidr alive?
I remember reading a comment of yours where you stated that Shaikh Al Islam Ibn Hajar agreed to the consensus of the people of Tasawwuf that Khidr was still alive. I was reading Sunan Abu Dawud, with its Sharh Awn Al Ma’bud and within it it stated: [Adjust encoding to Arabic windows] …I was wondering if you could clarify the above, since i do not have access to Ibn Hajars Al Isaba, although I do know he goes through a list of narrations regarding Sayyidina Khidrs death and his life [during and after the prophet pbuh]. Also, what is the most soundly established opinion of ibn hajar in this case?
He Responded:
Ibn Hajar’s position on the life of al-Khadir is best characterized as a tendency to reject the view that al-Khadir is alive mixed with reluctant acceptance for its possibility. In the Isaba, he cites al-Nawawi and Ibn al-Salah’s assertion that the majority of the scholars consider him alive then states: “One of the later scholars gathered the stories related from the righteous and others after the fourth century, and they hardly reach twenty stories on top of weakness in the chains of some of them.” However, in al-Zahr al-Nadir fi Naba’ al-Khadir – which he said he wrote after the Isaba – he cites more proofs and says he said to his teacher Abu al-Fadl al-`Iraqi: “I have abandoned my belief that al-Khadir died. ” At the conclusion of the monograph he says: “What I tend to hold as my position, on the basis of the strength of the proofs, is contrary to what the `awamm believe in that he continues to live; however, a doubt might be raised from the perspective of the abundance of transmitters for the reports indicating its continuation, and it can be said: granted, their chains are flimsy, since none of them is devoid of a reason for weakness, but what to do with the totality? Accordingly, it might be considered mass-transmitted in meaning in the same way, for example, as Hatim’s generosity. “(*)
(*) Ibn Hajar, al-Zahr al-Nadir (p. 114). Note: the words “contrary to” were dropped in the Kutub al-`Ilmiyya edition, which rendered the meaning unintelligible.
gibril
[SP 2006-10-17]
On Sep 21, 2007, Abul Layth said:
Shaykh Gf Haddad, on several occassions, throughout his works has strongly supported the life of al-Khidr (also spelled Al-Khadir).
In his Islamic Doctrines series, beneath his introduction to Ibn ‘Arabi, he states,
The hadith master al-Sakhawi stated:
“It is well-known that al-Nawawi used to meet with al-Khidr and converse with him among many other unveilings (mukashafat).”
[Al-Sakhawi, Tarjima Shaykh al-Islam Qutb al-Awliya' al-Kiram wa Faqih al-Anam Muhyi al-Sunna wa Mumit al-Bid'a Abi Zakariyya Muhyi al-Din al-Nawawi ("Biography of the Shaykh of Islam, the Pole of the Noble Saints and Jurist of Mankind, the Reviver of the Sunna and Slayer of Innovation Abu Zakariyya Muhyiddin al-Nawawi") (Cairo: Jam'iyya al-Nashr wa al-Ta'lif al-Azhariyya, 1354/1935 p. 33).]
He also quotes Ibn ‘Ata’illah rejecting the view of Ibn Al-Jawzi that he is dead and states that there is consensus of the Sufis that he is alive. [Lata'if Al-Minan 1:84-98]
Elsewhere, he quotes Imam Al-Barzanji as believing the man to face the Dajjaal will be Khidr. He says,
“Al-Barzanji in his book al-Isha’a li Ashrat al-Sa’a (1997 ed. p. 279-281; 1995 ed. p. 204-205) lists proofs to the effect that al-Khidr - peace upon him — is alive and shall face and belie the Antichrist (al-Dajjal), as he is the one meant in the hadith whereby a man faces the Antichrist and belies him, whereupon the latter saws him in half then revives him only to be belied again.
Narrated from Abu Sa’id al-Khudri by Abu Ya’la in his Musnad (2:332) and al-Hakim (1984 ed. 4:581=orig. ed. 4:537), both with a chain containing ‘Atiyya ibn Sa’d who is weak, and with another chain (by Abu Ya’la 2:535) containing Sufyan ibn Waki’ who is weak; also narrated from Abu Umama al-Bahili by Ibn Majah in his Sunan (book of Fitan) with a chain containing Isma’il ibn Rafi’, who is weak in his memorization; also narrated by Nu’aym ibn Hammad (d. 288) in Kitab al-Fitan (2:551) who said: al-Zuhri said: ‘Ubayd Allah
ibn ‘Abd Allah 
[ibn] ‘Utba narrated to us that Abu Sa’id al-Khudri said… The latter is a sound chain but there are several unnamed links between Nu’aym and al-Zuhri. Also narrated by al-Dani (d. 444) in his book al-Sunan fi al-Fitan (6:1178) but with a chain that stops at the Tabi’i Abu Mijlaz.
None of the weakness mentioned above in the chains raised to the Prophet is grave. If the weak links are at the same levels of the narrators’ biographical layers and are judged to strengthen each other, it would raise the grade of the hadith to “fair due to corroborative/witness chains” (hasan li ghayrih), and Allah
knows best. It is confirmed by the hadith related from Abu ‘Ubayda ibn al-Jarrah whereby the Prophet said: “It may be that one of those who saw me and heard my speech shall meet the Dajjal.” Narrated by Ibn Hibban in his Sahih (15:181) with a weak chain according to Shaykh Shu’ayb Arna’ut, however, Imam al-Tirmidhi in his Sunan said it is also narrated from three other Companions and thus graded the hadith itself “fair and single-chained (hasan gharib) as narrated from Abu ‘Ubayda.” [End Quote]
Elsewhere he quotes the following,
“Among the strongest transmitted proofs to this effect are two reports, one narrated by Imam Ahmad in al-Zuhd whereby the Prophet Muhammad
said that Ilyas and al-Khidr meet every year and spend the month of Ramadan in al-Quds, and the other narrated by Ya’qub ibn Sufyan from ‘Umar ibn ‘Abd al-’Aziz whereby a man he was seen walking with was actually al-Khidr. Ibn Hajar declared the chain of the first fair and that of the second sound in Fath al-Bari (1959 ed. 6:435). He goes on to cite another sound report narrated by Ibn ‘Asakir from Abu Zur’a al-Razi whereby the latter met al-Khidr twice, once in his young age, the other in his old age, but al-Khidr himself had not changed.”
On Sep 21, 2007, Abul Layth said:
Shaykh Nuh Ha Mim Keller, Qaddas Allahu sirrh, states in his biographical entries in the back of his translation of Umdatus-Saalik,
“…Scholars disagree as to whether he is presently alive, though most believe he is and will remain so until the Day of Judgement because of having drunk of the water of life — and also as to whther he is a prophet, angel or friend of Allah
(wali), ther majority holding him to be a prophet. (al Futuhaat Al Ilahiyya, Siraj Al Munir)
[Page 1067 of Reliance]
On Sep 22, 2007, Mustafa said:
as-salaamu alaykum,
Akhi abul layth, when did jibril hadad status change into being a shaykh? With all do respect my brother, it seems as if anybody who studies a bit becomes a shaykh. For an example, the person who is the imam at my masjid is given the title shaykh. He studied a bit in medina yet this man believes that Allaah is EVERYWHERE WITH HIS DHAT. I thought perhaps what he meant was Allah
’s ilm. Yet, he clarified that what is meant is Allaah is everywhere with His Dhat.
The point im trying to make is everyone calls him shaykh goes to him with questions yet hemakes a very grave error like this. May Allaah bless him with guidance and forgive him of all his sins and enlighten his sight.
I know it is a bit offtopic but I just wanted to know when his status had changed. By the way does jibril hadad still believe you can seek aid from the Ambiya by saying O so and So help me believing that they hear? It seems he has switched his opinion a couple times I am wondering what it is now. Jazakallah khayr
wasalaam
-Mustafa ‘Amriki al mexiki’
On Sep 22, 2007, Ibn Anwar said:
<p>Assalamu’alaikum,</p>
’s ilm. Yet, he clarified that what is meant is Allaah is everywhere with His Dhat.”</p>
<p>Musatafa, you said :</p>
<p>”Akhi abul layth, when did jibril hadad status change into being a shaykh? With all do respect my brother, it seems as if anybody who studies a bit becomes a shaykh. For an example, the person who is the imam at my masjid is given the title shaykh. He studied a bit in medina yet this man believes that Allaah is EVERYWHERE WITH HIS DHAT. I thought perhaps what he meant was Allah
<p>When did GF Haddad become a Shaykh? It seems to you that anyone who “studies a bit” becomes a sheikh?? Well, I haven’t heard that and Shaykh GF Haddad has not “studied a bit” ..The respected Shaykh has studied in Damascus with Dr. Nur al-Din `Itr, Shaykh Adib Kallas, Shaykh Wahbi al-Ghawji, al-Sayyid Shaykh Muhammad al-Ya`qubi, Dr. Samer al-Nass, Dr. Wahba al-Zuhayli, Shaykh `Abd al-Hadi Kharsa, Shaykh Muhammad Muti` al-Hafiz, Shaykh Bassam al-Hamzawi, Shaykh Munir al-Hayek. In Mecca he studied under the late venerable Muhaddith al-Sayyid al-Shaykh Dr. Muhammad `Alawi al-Maliki(the Shaykh has translated some of his works such as “The Prophets in Barzakh” from Manhaj Al-Salaf). In Morrocco he studied under Sidi Mustafa Bassir and in Beirut with the late Shaykh Husayn `Usayran, the last of the close students of Qadi Shaykh Yusuf al-Nabhani. In the secular world he has a PhD from Columbia University and is currently completing a second doctorate from Damascus. He is also an official instructor on the online traditional school sunnipath.com, teaching alongside eminent scholars like Shaykh Nuh Ha Mim Keller and Shaykh Faraz Rabbani. </p>
The following are some of the published works and translations by Shaykh GF Haddad :
<p>-Ibn Khafif. Al-’Aqida al-Sahiha (”Correct Islamic Doctrine”).</p>
and His Prophet (peace be upon him) 40 Hadith”) Bilingual. Forewords by Shaykh Abid Kallas, Shaykh Mustafa al-Turkmani, and Shaykh Salah Fakhri.</p>
be well pleased with him). Bilingual.</p>
s.a.w.? There is ikhtilaf on this matter.</p>
s.a.w. said,“When your animal in runs away from you in the desert, then say: “O servants of Allah 
! Catch him! O servants of Allah 
, stop him!” Becaus on Earth there are servants of Allah 
, which are ready to catch them“.“<br />
<p>-Al-Bayhaqi. Al-Asma’ wal-Safat (”The Divine Names and Attributes”).Excerpts.</p>
<p>-Ibn ‘Abd al-Salam. Ai-Mulha fi I’tiqad Ahl al-Haqq (”Belief of the Poeple of the Truth”).</p>
<p>-Ibn ‘Arabi. Aqidat al-’Awamm min Ahl al-Islam (”Common Doctrine of the Muslim”).</p>
<p>-Sayyid Muhammad ‘Alawi al-Maliki. Al-Anbiya’ fi-Barzakh (”The Prophets in the Isthmus-Life”). Revised bilingual edition.</p>
<p>- Al-Anwar al-Bahiyya fi Isra’ waMi’raj Khayr al-Bariyya (”The Prophet’s (peace be upon him) Night Journey and Ascention”). Revised English edition.</p>
<p>-Sayyid Yusuf Hashim al-Rifa’i. Nasiha li-Ikhwaninia Ulama’ Najd (”Advice to our Brethren the Scholars of Najd”). Introduction by M.S.R. al-Buti. With Sayyid ‘Alawi Ahmad al-Haddad’s Misbah al-Anam (”The Light of Mankind”). English.</p>
<p>-Al-Habib ‘Ali al-Jafri. Jesus Christ the Son of Mary and His Most Blessed Mother.</p>
<p>-Afdalu al-Khalqi Sayyiduna Muhammad (peace be upon him) On the Prophetic Attribute “Best of Creation”). Bilingual.</p>
<p>- Al-Arba’un fi Fadli al-Shami wa-Ahlih wal-Hijrati ila Allahi wa-Rasulih (peace be upon him) (”The Excellence of Syro-Palestine and Its People in Emigrating to Allah
<p>- Sayyiduna Abu Bakr al-Saddiq (may Allah
<p>- Qubrus al-Tarab fi Suhbat Rajab (”The Joy of Cyprus in the Association of Rajab [1422]“).</p>
<p>-Discourses of Shaykh Nazim al-Haqqani. Bilingual.</p>
<p>- Mawlid: Celebrating the Birth of the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him)</p>
<p>- Collective Supplication: Sunna or Bid’a? Bilingual.</p>
<p>- Albani and His Friends: A Concise Guide to the “Salafi” Movement.</p>
<p>- The Four Imams and Their Schools. Bilingual.</p>
<p>- Ahmad ibn Taymiyya.</p>
<p>some Scholars from sunniforum.com who consider Dr. GF Haddad a Shaykh and scholar :<br />
-Shaykh eTeacher<br />
-Shaykh Abul Hasan<br />
etc.</p>
<p>You said:</p>
<p>”The point im trying to make is everyone calls him shaykh goes to him with questions yet hemakes a very grave error like this. May Allaah bless him with guidance and forgive him of all his sins and enlighten his sight.”</p>
<p>What grave error are you referring to?</p>
<p>You said,</p>
<p>”By the way does jibril hadad still believe you can seek aid from the Ambiya by saying O so and So help me believing that they hear? It seems he has switched his opinion a couple times I am wondering what it is now.”</p>
<p>Could you direct me to where he said that? Perhaps you’re referring to his stance on the concept of hadhir nazir of Prophet Muhammad
<p>This may be of some use:<br />
Abdullah ibn Mas’ud r.a. relates, that the Messenger of Allah
(Abu Ya’la, Musnad, Nr.5269, 9/177, Ibn Hajar, al-mutalib al-ali, Nr.3375, 3/239, Tabarani, al-mukemul Kabir, Nr.10518, 10/217, Daylami, Musnad Firdaus, Nr.1311, 1/330; Ibn Al-Sunni, ‘Amal al-yawm wal laylah S.162, Nr502); Haythamī, Majma’ al-zawa’id 10/132)</p>
One day a shafi ijtihad scholar Shihab Al-Ramli(Rahimehullah) was asked:
“Is it correct according to islam, that some people when they get in trouble, shout out with words like: “Ya Rasulallah!, Ya Shaykh so and so!” and so seek for the help of the prophets, awliyas, salihs and scholars? Have theses people the abilitiy to help at all after their death?”
He answered: “The Rasuls, the nabis and the walis, have the abilitiy to help after their passing away. Because the miracles of the prophets and the keramets of the walis don’t stop after their death. Anyway, many secure Ahadith tell us, that prophets live in their graves, make there salah, go to hajj and their help is one of their miracles. Alive are also the shehids, often it was seen with bare eyes on broght daylight, that they openly fought against the kafirs. But the help of the walis is with their keramets.” .”(Fatawa Ramli, fi Hamishil Fatawal Kubra, ibni Hajar Al-Haytami, 4/382, al Fatawa” Hayriyye, fi Hamishil Ukudid Durriyye fi Tenhikil Hamidiyye, 2/279280. Tahanawi, Ahkamul Qur’an, 3/67, Nabhani, Shawahidul Haq, pg. 141)
<p>-Ibn Anwar</p>
<p>P.S. Shaykh literally means “old man” or “elder”. The word is not exclusive to Islam. One should not feel affronted that someone is called “shaykh” even if he is disagreeable. Anyone in a respectable position(in the eyes of whoever)linguistically may be called a “Shaykh” by his supporters. There are more important issues to tackle. By the way, I think the comparison you provided was a bit unwarranted.</p>
On Sep 22, 2007, al-faqir said:
brother Ibn Anwar, [as-salamu alaikum]
the two quotes you mentioned can be found on our website:
Imam al-Ramli’s fatwa:
http://www.marifah.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=48
O Slaves of Allah: Help me
http://www.marifah.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=55
By the way sidi, I wanted to get in contact with you - can you ask Abul Layth for my msn email?
was-salam
On Sep 22, 2007, Mustafa said:
That is a rediculous fatwa. Basically ‘You can call upon the Nabi
salalahu alayhi wa salam to rescue you, cure your illness, give your children as long as you believe Allah 
has the only effect in the world’ Such kufr may Allah 
guide you
On Sep 22, 2007, Ibn Saad said:
Interesting, so I guess Scholars who did do Tawassul must be Kafr according to your reasoning. So lets see who is Kafr:
1) Ibrahim Al-Harbi (Tarikh Baghdad 1:122)
blessed His Prophet with)
2) Abul-Rabi’ bin Salim (Siyar A’lam Al-Nubala 21:251)
3) Abul-Shaikh Al-Asbahani (Siyar A’lam Al-Nubala 16:400)
4) Abu ‘Ali al-Khallal (Tarikh Baghdad 1:120)
5) Abu Zar’ah Al-Razi (Al-Muntadhim 9:74)
6) Ibn Abil-Dunya (Qurra al-Dayf 5:225)
7) Ibn Al-Jazari (Iddatul-Hisn Al-Husain)
8) Ibn Al-Jawzi (Zad Al-Maseer 4:253)
9) Ibn ‘Asakir (Tarikh Dimishq 6:43) and in his Arba’iniyat
10) Ibn Kathir (Bidayah 13:192)
11) Al-Bayhaqi (Al-Muntadhim 11:211)
12) Al-Darimi (Sunan Al-Darimi: Chapter on what Allah
13) Al-Sakhawi (Fath Al-Mughith 2:261)
14) Al-Suyuti (Al-Itqan 2:502)
15) Al-Tabarani (Siyar A’lam Al-Nubala 16:400)
16) Al-’Ijluni (Kashf Al-Khafa 2:55)
17) Al-Mundhiri, in his Risalah
18) Al-Qurtubi (Tafsir Al-Qurtubi 8:240)
19) Al-Haythami (Majma’ Al-Zawaid 9:420)
20) Al-Ghazali (Ihya ‘Ulum Al-Din 1:260)
The Messenger (s) said: “Allah
does not allow the Ummah of Muhammad to agree on an error.”
Sahih.
Tirmidhi (Sunan, #2167), Hakim (Mustadrak #397)
On Sep 22, 2007, Mustafa said:
There is is a difference between asking using the status of someone and asking the ambiya and awliya to heal you, grant you health, children, wealth etc …
Kashf ush shubuhat destroys this kufr
On Sep 22, 2007, Ibn Saad said:
Ibn Qudamah Hanbali, defining the manner of pilgrimage to the shrine of the Prophet (s), writes in the book al-Mughni Stand beside the tomb of the Prophet (s), and say: I have come to you for forgiveness of my sins and to seek your intercession with Allah
(taken from Al-Mughni ma’ al-Sharh, vol. 3, p 588; al-Sharh al-Kabir ma’ al-Mughni, vol. 3,
p. 494).
(Interestingly I got this from a shia site: http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/tawassul/tawassul.pdf)
On Sep 22, 2007, Abul Layth said:
All deeds are based upon intent. Before you begin vomiting your atrocious takfeer and wahhabi bida’ah, know that those who do such an act are not asking the prophet for those things. They are asking him to ask Allah
ta’alaa for them. That is the reality of the matter. The wahhabis, because of their own ignorance, can not understand this simple point! It is a type of intercession that this Ummah is unanimously agreed upon, save Ibn Taymiyyah. As As-Subki said no one before Ibn Taymiyyah made such a claim, and he innovated!
Stop your innovating into the deen of Allah
atrocious and unfounded Bida’aat!
On Sep 26, 2007, Taha said:
I thought the discussion was about Khidr [a].
Anyway, there is ijma’ of the Sufis that he is alive. And this is from directly meeting him.
Anyone who’s spent even a day with a real sufi knows that the last thing they do is lie.
It’s authentically narrated that Umar bin Abd Al-Aziz met him. Likewise, Ibn Hajar mentioned in the Isaba that either Ali bin Hasan or Abul-Hasan met him as well. Or heard him, or something along those lines - memory fails me.
On Sep 26, 2007, Taha said:
*It should say Ali bin HUSSAIN ^ (i.e. Zayn Al-Abidin) or Abul-Husain (i.e. bin Abi Talib)
On Oct 23, 2007, Ibn Saad said:
From H-Adam:
“Among the strongest transmitted proofs to this effect are two reports, one narrated by Imam Ahmad in al-Zuhd whereby the Prophet Muhammad
(SAWS) said that Ilyas and al-Khidr meet every year and spend the month of Ramadan in al-Quds, and the other narrated by Ya’qub ibn Sufyan from ‘Umar ibn ‘Abd al-’Aziz whereby a man he was seen walking with was actually al-Khidr. Ibn Hajar declared the chain of the first fair and that of the second sound in Fath al-Bari (1959 ed. 6:435). He goes on to cite another sound report narrated by Ibn ‘Asakir from Abu Zur’a al-Razi whereby the latter met al-Khidr twice, once in his young age, the other in his old age, but al-Khidr himself had not changed.”
On Jan 7, 2008, Sunnih said:
It would be interesting if you did publish what Ibn Taymiah said in his Majmoo 4/337 from Imam Ahmad and Bukhari which of course you will not do. As for Imam Ahmad: Ibraheem al harbi asked Imam Ahmad about the idea of Khidr and Ilyas still being alive and whether they could still be seen and whether stories could be narrated from them. He replied: “I think all of these stories are comming from Shaytan”.
Also from the same fatwah 4/337 sheikh ul-Islam mentions that Bukhari was asked about Khidr and Ilyaas if they were still alive and he replied: “How could they be still alive when the prophet said: in 100 years time there will be no one left on this earth alive from those alive now”.
On Jan 7, 2008, tilmeedh said:
…or I could mention that Ibn Taymiyya also quotes Imam Ahmad as encouraging tawassul, without challenging it.
But he tried to counter it by his own reasoning using the contradictory reports of Imam Ahmad allowing and disallowing swearing by the Prophet [s].
..
Ya akhi, the contradictory fatwas regarding Khidr are in fact one right after the other.
So:
1) Either the Sheikh is a madman who says one thing one day, and another thing the other
2) or, he held one view once, but changed it later on.
I hope it was the latter. And in fact there are authentic reports (from the salaf AND khalaf) that show that people have met with Al-Khidr.
Anyway, the answer to Imam Bukhari’s reasoning has been provided by none other than Sheikh Ibn Taymiyya himself in the fatwa that follows the one you quoted.
In any case, thank you for sharing.
ws
On Jan 7, 2008, sunnih said:
So at least you should mention that there are two oppinions transmited from him on this matter. This would be more honest.
On Jan 7, 2008, mustafa said:
as salaamu alaykum,
This isnt an issue that people should debate over. Relax sunnih even if your heroe ibn taymiyah rahimahullah did believe khidr alayhi salam is alive doesnt mean it affects your belief in Allah
literally having limbs and of you calling yourself Salafi or ‘hanbali’. So really its not that big of deal.
wasalaam
On Jan 7, 2008, sunnih said:
Wa alaikum salam. I am not debating at all but reading the name of the site, it would be nice to present the information as it is and if there are two fatwas that contradict themselves at least it should be mentioned that there is another say also. That is all. Ibn Taymiyah does not need me or you to defend him and nor does my or your words against him carry any weight whatsoever.
On Jan 7, 2008, tilmeedh said:
w’salam,
It’s just that the point of quoting the particular fatwa had a [very obvious] purpose.
For many, it doesn’t matter whether the Shaykh believed in his being alive or not. But for some, it does matter quite a big deal.
How many a time, one quotes scholars from the Salaf, Khalaf, left, right and center. And it has no effect on a person.
But when the Shaykh Ibn Taymiyya is quoted, it is really as if he is AL-Shaykh.
Given the implied premise this entails when discussing with people, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out why that particular fatwa was quoted.
And you are right: he does not need me or you or anyone else to defend him.
allows us to benefit us from the good he left, and forgive him for his slips.
I pray Allah
Wallahu a’lam.
ws
On Jan 8, 2008, mustafa said:
as salamu alaykum,
The brother perhaps was unaware of the other fatawa. Let us make excuses for eachother.
On Jan 9, 2008, Abdullah Ibn Al_Mubarak said:
what I read you said the khidr is alive! and Ibn Taymiyya said that?
and this link:
“http://al-eman.com/Islamlib/viewchp.asp?BID=252&CID=76#s2s”
shows this?
On Jan 9, 2008, Ibn Saad said:
For those who clicked the link and unfortunately can not read:
هل كان الخضر ـ عليه السلام ـ نبيًا أو وليًا ؟ وهل هو حي إلى الآن؟ وإن كان حيًا فما تقولون فيما روى عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أنه قال: (لو كان حيًا لزارني) هل هذا الحديث صحيح أم لا؟
فأجَـاب:
أما نبوته: فمن بعد مبعث رسول اللّه صلى الله عليه وسلم لم يوح إليه ولا إلى غيره من الناس، وأما قبل مبعث النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقد اختلف في نبوته، ومن قال: إنه نبي، لم يقل: إنه سلب النبوة، بل يقول: هو كإلياس نبي، لكنه لم يوح إليه في هذه الأوقات، وترك الوحي إليه في مدة معينة ليس نفيًا لحقيقة النبوة، كما لو فتر الوحي عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم في أثناء مدة رسالته.
وأكثر العلماء على أنه لم يكن نبيًا، مع أن نبوة من قبلنا يقرب كثير منها من الكرامة والكمال في الأمة، وإن كان كل واحد من النبيين أفضل من كل /واحد من الصديقين كما رتبه القرآن، وكما روى عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أنه قال: (ما طلعت الشمس ولا غربت على أحد بعد النبيين والمرسلين أفضل من أبي بكر الصديق)، وروى عنه صلى الله عليه وسلم أنه قال: (إن كان الرجل ليسمع الصوت فيكون نبيًا).
وفي هذه الأمة من يسمعه ويرى الضوء وليس بنبي؛ لأن ما يراه ويسمعه يجب أن يعرضه على ما جاء به محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم، فإن وافقه فهو حق، وإن خالفه تيقن أن الذي جاء من عند اللّه يقين لا يخالطه ريب، ولا يحوجه أن يشهد عليه بموافقة غيره.
وأما حياته: فهو حي. والحديث المذكور لا أصل له، ولا يعرف له إسناد، بل المروي في مسند الشافعي وغيره: أنه اجتمع بالنبي صلى الله عليه وسلم، ومن قال: إنه لم يجتمع بالنبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقد قال ما لا علم له به، فإنه من العلم الذي لا يحاط به.
ومن احتج على وفاته بقول النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم: (أرأيتكم ليلتكم هذه، فإنه على رأس مائة سنة لا يبقى على وجه الأرض ممن هو عليها اليوم أحد) فلا حجة فيه، فإنه يمكن أن يكون الخضر إذ ذاك على وجه الأرض.
ولأن الدجال ـ وكذلك الجساسة ـ الصحيح أنه كان حيا موجودا /على عهد النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم، وهو باق إلى اليوم لم يخرج، وكان في جزيرة من جزائر البحر.
فما كان من الجواب عنه كان هو الجواب عن الخضر، وهو أن يكون لفظ الأرض لم يدخل في هذا الخبر، أو يكون أراد صلى الله عليه وسلم الآدميين المعروفين، وأما من خرج عن العادة فلم يدخل في العموم، كما لم تدخل الجن، وإن كان لفظًا ينتظم الجن والإنس. وتخصيص مثل هذا من مثل هذا العموم كثير معتاد. واللّه أعلم.
On Jan 15, 2008, ninja said:
some topics are best left alone.Especially by muslims whom cannot even agree on a date for eid or ramadan in the same town ,city, or country.How can such people reach a point of agreement on a status of My lords Khizer and Ilyas
On Jan 16, 2008, Abul Layth said:
Such topics are awesome and should be known by Muslims. I have no doubt that Khidr is alive and well, and insha’Allah
I’ll get to meet the guy (alayhis salaam) some day.
On Jan 16, 2008, mustafa said:
as salaamu alaykum but how do we know that he STILL is alive today?
On Jan 16, 2008, Abul Layth said:
Noble men have attested to meeting him. Shaykh M.H Adam recently informed us that his grandfather personally encountered him.
On Jan 16, 2008, ninja said:
what diffrence does it make if he is alive or not to you or i because we can never meet him nor can it serve purpose if we do meet him.What will you ask for the lottery numbers or who is right the suuni, the al hadith or the shites.
On Jan 16, 2008, mustafa said:
I would ask him alayhi salam if we affirm Yad and wajh and istiwa upon the dhahir and ask him if Allah
is over the throne distinct from creation etc..
On Jan 17, 2008, Abul Layth said:
It may not matter you, and obviously it doesn’t. If it doesn’t, then the articles related to Khidr being alive are not pertinent. If it does matter, then they have worth.
So what would I ask him? I would ask him, if I ever meet him as others have: “What is your favorite food? Where do you stay so I can come visit you more often - or are you a hermit? Who do you believe was the greatest scholar of the Muhammedan Ummah? Besides ‘arabi, what other language(s) are you fond of? Did you ever marry or do you think women are a waste of energy? How tall was Musaa? What is your favorite literary works? of Everything you learned in your entire existence, which dunya-related knowledge do you find most useful?
And maybe more…
On Jan 17, 2008, Abul Layth said:
And to Mustafa’s question, it seems that Khidr hung out with some cool “asha’ris”:
On Jan 17, 2008, mustafa said:
imam nawawi akhi? rahimahullah
Was he that deep into tasawwuf? Man this further confuses me!Allah
WHERE IS THE HAQ
On Jan 18, 2008, loveProphet said:
“And the majority of the ‘ulema believe that he was not a Prophet…”
Is that true? I thought it was the opposite.
On Jan 18, 2008, Abul Layth said:
lol, Firstly Khidr met Abul-Hasan Ash-Shadhili as reported by Ibn As Sabbagh in his work on the issue. I don’t know what is so confusing about the issue. Apparently Khadir meets alot of the Aqtaab of old.
As for Imam An-Nawawi being sufi, then one only need to read his bustan al-aarifeen or the maqaasid to see that he was indeed a Sufi. I recall Shaykh Nuh being asked if Imam An Nawawi followed a Tariqah and he told us that such is not known from him, however, when he was younger he was constantly seen with a “man” - an implication to khidr - as Mentioned by Hafith Sakhawi.
On Jan 18, 2008, ninja said:
my research on sayidna Khizer so far: He was a prophet. But on the arrival of Hazrzt Muhammed Mushstapha {pbuh} he and Hazrat Ilyas were demoted by choice. So that they could be part of the ummah of the holy prophet. Both were and are in the elite catogary of saints in the hierachey known as the Rijal ul gaib.{the people of the unseen} Hazrat Khizer is nt an angel because he has a KUNEEYAT parentage. Hazrat Khizers name is ABUL ABBAS BALYA BIN MALAKAN.
On Jan 18, 2008, ninja said:
HE IS NOT IMMORTAL HE HAS LONGEVITY OF LIFE LIKE HAZRAT ILYAS.ALLAH{SWT]HAS SELECTED HIM AS HIS SLAVE AND AGENT ON EARTH TO DO HIS BIDDING.PART OF WHICH GUIDEING PEOPLE WHOM SEEK Allah
ON THE RIGHTPART SOME OF WHOM YOU HAVE ALL MENTIONED,HE RESIDES ON THE SEA OF WHICH HE HAS AUTHORITY OVER BY THE LEAVE OF Allah 
{SWT}HE HAS BEEN THE TEACHER TO THE PROPHETS EXCLUDING THE HOLY PROPHET AND THE SAINTS.
On Jan 19, 2008, Abul Layth said:
Someone have a caps problem? Immortality has nothing to do with the issue, as immortality refers to one who will never taste death! No one is saying that at all! We believe he is mortal and has been given an extended life. Simple!
On Jan 21, 2008, IbnSaad said:
wohooo this post reached 1000 views
On Jan 24, 2008, ninja said:
has anyone got anything constuctive to say!
On Jan 24, 2008, loveProphet said:
This has been posted on another forum:
“The Fatwa is probably not sound as coming from Shaykh al-Islam. The editor, Shaykh Abd al-Rahman b.Qasim rahimahullah, expressed its doubtful nature by mentioning in the footnote something on its origin what he did not do for many other Fatawa.
There exist a possibility that it is sound, but there are two explicit Fatwa’s of the Shaykh al-Islam - in the same collection - that oppose it. Therein he explicitly denies it. In fact, in the Minhaj al-Sunnah which is written between 708 and 712 I believe, he argues against it in clear terms. So maybe he expressed an earlier opinion, which he left for what is stated in the Minhaj and elsewhere.
And even if he did opinion it, there is nothing wrong with that. You dont become a disbeliever in thinking Khidr being alive. It was an opinion, strongly criticized by the Shaykh al-Islam, that was shared by some great scholars.”
and
“Sheikh Sulayman al-Ashqar has mentioned in his book on the beliefs on the messengers and angels from Majmoo al fatawah of Ibn Taymiah 4/337 that Ibraheem al harbi asked Imam Ahmad about the idea of Khidr and Ilyas still being alive and whether they could still be seen and whether stories could be narrated from them. He replied: “I think all of these stories are comming from Shaytan”.
Also from the same fatwah 4/337 sheikh ul-Islam mentions that Bukhari was asked about Khidr and Ilyaas if they were still alive and he replied: “How could they be still alive when the prophet said: in 100 years time there will be no one left on this earth alive from those alive now”.
He also mentions that a lot of scholars wrote about the falseness of the claims that Khidr is still alive and he mentions amongst them:
Ibn Kethir in Bidayah wan-Nihayah 1/326
Sheikh Shanqeeti ne Adwa’ al-bayan 4/184
Ibn Haxhar Askalani wrote “Az-Zahr an-nadr fi naba’ al Khidr” that is published in Majmoo’ah ar-rasail al-muneeriyah 2/195
Based upon all these I do not think that what this dajjal quotes from sheikh ul-Islam is true. It might be as usual a quote from him quoting someone else as it has become a vogue of these shayateen to attribute the ideas of others to sheikh ul-Islam.”
On Jan 25, 2008, Ibn Saad said:
lol bro,
this is from IA forums, look at the comment that answers that.
On Jan 25, 2008, loveProphet said:
Don’t know, some wahabi posted it on Sunniforum.
Yeah i just read that comment you’re talking about.
Yeah Ibn Taymiyya a lot of the times has contradictory fatwas.
On Jan 25, 2008, Abdullah Ibn Al_Mubarak said:
“الخضر مات قبل بعثة النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم”
في قريتي رجل يدعي أنه قابل الخضر عليه السلام في المدينة المنورة وأعطاه تمراً، كما يدعي أنه يعالج المرضى، ولهذا فالناس يتوافدون عليه ليل نهار ليعالجهم عن طريق المسح على مكان الألم مقابل بعض النقود، هل هذا صحيح؟ أم أنه نوع من الشعوذة واستغلال السذج والبسطاء؟
أما الخضر فالصحيح أنه مات من دهر طويل قبل مبعث النبي عليه الصلاة والسلام، وليس لوجوده حقيقة بل هذا كله باطل وليس له وجود، وهذا هو الصحيح الذي عليه المحققون من أهل العلم، فالخضر عليه السلام مات قبل مبعث النبي عليه الصلاة والسلام بل قبل مبعث عيسى عليه السلام، والصحيح أن الخضر نبي كما دل عليه ظاهر القرآن الكريم، وقد قال عليه الصلاة والسلام في الحديث الصحيح: ((أنا أولى الناس بابن مريم والأنبياء أولاد عَلات وليس بيني وبينه نبي))[1]، فدل على أن الخضر قد مات قبل ذلك ولو فرضنا أنه ليس نبياً وأنه رجل صالح لكان اتصل بالنبي صلى الله عليه وسلم. ثم لو فرضنا أنه لم يتصل لكان مات على رأس مائة سنة كما قال عليه الصلاة والسلام في آخر حياته: ((أرأيتكم ليلتكم هذه فإن على رأس مائة سنة منها لا يبقى ممن هو على ظهر الأرض أحد))[2]، فدل ذلك على أن من كان موجوداً في ذلك الوقت لا يبقى بعد مائة سنة، بنص النبي عليه الصلاة والسلام أنهم يموتون قبل انخرام المائة، فالحاصل أن الخضر قد مات وليس بموجود، والذي يزعم أنه رآه إما أنه كاذب، وإما أن الذي قال إنه الخضر قد كذب عليه، وليس بالخضر وإنما هو شيطان من شياطين الإنس أو الجن.
أما هذا الذي يعالج الناس بأن يمسح على محل المرض فهذا ينظر في أمره، فإن كان من الناس الطيبين المعروفين بالاستقامة والإيمان وأنه يقرأ عليهم القرآن، ويدعو الله لهم فلا بأس وإن أخذ شيئاً من الأجرة، أما إن كان لا يعرف بالخير بل يتهم بالسوء فإنه يمنع ولا يؤتى، ويمنع بواسطة المسئولين في البلد؛ لأن مثل هذا في الغالب يكون خرافياً أو مشعوذاً، أو يستخدم الجن أو كذاباً يأكل أموال الناس بالباطل. نسأل الله السلامة والعافية.
________________________________________
[1] رواه البخاري في كتاب الأنبياء برقم 3186، ومسلم في الفضائل برقم 4360.
[2] رواه مسلم في فضائل الصحابة برقم 4605، والترمذي في الفتن برقم 2177.
On Jan 25, 2008, Ibn Ahmad said:
في قريتي رجل يدعي أنه قابل الخضر عليه السلام في المدينة المنورة وأعطاه تمراً، كما يدعي أنه يعالج المرضى، ولهذا فالناس يتوافدون عليه ليل نهار ليعالجهم عن طريق المسح على مكان الألم مقابل بعض النقود، هل هذا صحيح؟ أم أنه نوع من الشعوذة واستغلال السذج والبسطاء؟
What that man does is between him, the people he treats, and Allah
. The Muslim leaves that which does not concern him.
This anectodes pertains very little to the above article.
On Jan 26, 2008, Ibrahim Abdul-Haqq said:
I believe that Khidr (alayhis salaam) is alive, but there is a difference between someone actually meeting him and someone CLAIMING to have met him (or someone claiming that someone else has met him). I find that some of the Sufis are extremely gullible in accepting every claim from everyone about everything.
On Jan 26, 2008, Abul Layth said:
I think that is a fair concern Ibrahim. The fact is, if someone reliable and a non-liar informs us of his encounter, there is no reason to disbelieve him unless it contradicts the shari’ah.
Abdullah, your article has no relevance and your arguments have already been answered, you’re just to slow to GET IT, like always.
On Jan 26, 2008, Ibn Umer said:
Salam,
What is, and what SHOULD BE, accepted is what conforms to the conditions laid down by Imam Tahawi in his creedal manual:
We believe in what we know of Karamat, the marvels of the awliya’ and in authentic stories about them from trustworthy sources.
What has reached us regarding Al-Khadir [a] meeting the awliya, there are some stories that are forgeries, but others that have been transmitted by the elite of the Ummah; those who fit the description of ‘trustworthy sources’ that Imam Tahawi mentions.
ws
On Jan 26, 2008, Usooli said:
to the wahabi abdullah ibn mubarak,
, who ignore the ijmaa on many counts, and cant take opinions that do have validity amongst the traditional islamic scholarship and sources, just because it doesnt agree with the opinion of your neo-salafi party, and who are severe, harsh, rude, rough and prideful on fellow muslims, and at the same soft and kind with Christians and Jews.
what is your point in showing off yourself with arabic in an english speaking blog? Boastfulness, tafakhour, reyaa, mofreh, ta3hadhom an nafs isnt it? Your boastfulness is one of the many ugly traits that the adherents to the way of the la madhhabi Najdi Saloolite wahabis, the back stabbers of the Ottoman Caliphate, the destroyers of the Islamic unity, the causers of fitaan east and west, the uglifiers of the names of da3wah, deen and jihad, profess. What we see of all the mess today from Palestine to Afghanistan, has its origins in your cult’s appearance in the accursed Najd, who caused the unity of Muslims take a downfall, opening the lands of haramayan, and jerusalem wide open for the crusaders/colonists and zionists to dominate and oppress us till this day. You mujassim khawarij and neo-khariji la madhhabis , we dont want to take our religion from you Najdis, you are a people beefed in ignorance, arrogance and partisianship,who lack the science of ihsan/tazkiyatun nufus leading to take up the matters of deen out of the intentions of shuh/party-self-ego/other than getting closer to Allah
my advice to you is before you even decide to post, it is better for you to go over the surah of luqman and ponder over its verses, and go over surah al kahf, and see the lessons therein, it is more better than coming to blogs and showing yourself off.
On Jan 26, 2008, loveProphet said:
To this brother “Usooli”,
I understand your frustration but please calm down on your tone.
(Sallalahu Alaihi Wa Sallam).
Such a harsh tone towards Muslims is not the way of the Messenger of Allah
I however also don’t agree with you in your arguing that the wahabis are the destroyers of unity amongst the Muslims, the Muslims were already disunited before they appeared anyways. Although it can be argued and strongly too that the wahabis have further disunited the Ummah.
And its not also right to lay the blame upon them for this Ummah’s weakness in today’s time.
Do you think it was the wahabis who made the Mughal empire fall to the colonialist British?
Do you think it was the wahabis who made the Muslim empires in Central asia to fall to the Tsars?
And it was also the other Arabs(who weren’t wahabi) who joined the kuffar against the Ottomons. The Jordanians and the Egyptians are a good example.
And my point can continue.
We have to use reasoning, not emotion.
Also, it is not valid to assume the intentions of the person who has posted in Arabic, we cannot see the hearts of people and thus we should have husn adh-dhann(a good opinion of others).
Wa Salaam
On Jan 26, 2008, Mustafa said:
as salaamu alaykum,
The reason why the ummah is in such distress is our lack of acting upon the Quran and Sunnah. This is for every single one of us. That is why we must purify ourselves. Only those succeed who purify themselves.
The Salafis are indeed a group that you will find are indeed very harsh with muslimin and nice to the kuffar. The hizbiyah of the group has caused the opinions of the reliable ulama to be thrown to the side because a handful of salafis do not agree to it. THough its just not the salafis themselves i believe. IT has to do with you and I who do not invoke ALlaah in dua, who do not recite Quran much, who do not make dhikr much, and who dont strive to purify ourselves of our negetive traits. Then truely once we purify ourselves the ummah as a whole we will succeed.
I think
On Jan 26, 2008, Abul Layth said:
The Wahhabis revolted in the 1700’s. They latered allied with the british after being wooped on by Muhammad Pasha (rahimahullah). When they came back in the 1900’s they betrayed this Ummah, solidified kufr and taghaa in the jazeera, and implemented their trash spiritual stagnation. There is no doubt that they are not the only cause for our downfall, however, they are sure part of it.
On Jan 27, 2008, Ibn Ahmad said:
In defense of brother Abdullah, he is an Arab and is still learning English. Masha’Allah
he has made attempts to type in English and though I disagree with him on..well..everything, I’m still proud of his effort. He types in Arabic because he knows the average SI surfer will understand him.
On Jan 27, 2008, Abul Layth said:
He can type english well. He types in arabic because he hopes I or you will waste time translating his non-sense to get his “message” out. I have quickly learned that such endeavors are futile.
On Feb 25, 2008, Ahmed Mohamed said:
Regarding the main point of this mini forum. Al Khidr was a wise man but one can not surely claim he is alive without any prove and evidence. Al Khidr is a man of great Integrity and a man Allah
has given knowledge to. But to invoke or a praise him in any way is an act of Shirk. May Allah 
bless you all my muslim brothers or Sisters
On Feb 26, 2008, Abul Layth said:
To say that he is alive right now can not be absolute. However, the possibility of him being alive is certain, as we have shown in the above article.
Regarding praising him being shirk, then such a statement is baseless. Firstly, praise simply means to “express approval or admiration”. Within your very post you did just that. Apparently you committed shirk by your own standards. May Allah
guide us all to his siraat and continue to send his blessings upon Al-Khadir ‘alayhis salam Amin!
As to invoking him being shirk, then it is according to the intent of the one invoking and what they are invoking him with.
Jazaakum Allahu khairan
On Feb 26, 2008, ninja said:
The question at hand was if Al Khizer is alive.?
On Feb 27, 2008, Abul Layth said:
There was no question. It was a statement!
On May 24, 2008, tilmeedh said:
Here’s another fatwa from Shaykh Ibn Taymiyay’s Majmu’ which clearly indicates belief in Al-Khadir’s being alive:
وأما أبو بكر والخضر، فهذا يبني على نبوة الخضر.
وأكثر العلماء على أنه ليس بنبي، وهو اختيار أبي علي بن أبي موسى وغيره من العلماء. فعلى هذا أبو بكر وعمر أفضل منه.
والقول الثاني: أنه نبي، واختاره أبو الفرج ابن الجوزي وغيره. فعلى هذا هو أفضل من أبي بكر، لكن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم وعيسى ابن مريم هما أفضل منه بالاتفاق، ومحمد في أول هذه الأمة وعيسى في آخرها.
On Jun 15, 2008, Ibn Saad said:
Salam br. Tilmeedh,
Can u give the reference?
On Jul 1, 2008, Usooli said:
Just to add, the sufi tariqahs attributed to the Muhammadiyyan(saws) ways have their chains from Khidr. From amongst those teachers who took from khidr directly, they had such karamaat as rising the dead, something no magician or a person in contact with demons can immitate. Even the Dajjal wont be able to perform this and will use illusions, as only a Prophet or someone who follows him can issue by the power of Allah
such a thing.
Abdul Aziz ad dabbagh, the maghribi, took his path from khidr, and from him at tazi took, and who was followed by Ahmad ibn Idris of Fez.
Ibn Idris also had personal visitations from khidr, and it is famous from him that he ressurected once a dead woman.From ibn idris and his approval, the path was taken by Muhammad ibn Ali as Sanusi, the founder of the saunsi order, who had an effective role in guarding North, central and western africa from european colonist expanions, and whose successors and mureeds fought off the French, British, and the Italians. The famous Omar al Mukhtar was one of them.
On Jul 1, 2008, Usooli said:
May Allah
bless and protect the west of this Islamic nation, who have kept remaining on traditional islam from the beginning, who perserved the true spirit of the deen and risalah, who did not indulge in afflictions at the scale seen in the east, who continuously throughout generations brought forth so many awliya and friends of God, from whose fruits the east and west of this nation are benefitting.
protect the maghrib from the plague of wahhabism, and eradicate it wholely ,protect the entire ummah from this menance, the menance that brought retreat of Allah 
’s blessings, disunity/anomosity amongst muslims, and have made the tasks of kuffars easier upon us, and may Allah 
protect the whole ummah from the modern evils of secularism and capitalism.
May Allah
The Prophet(saws) is reported to have said, that his followers in the west will remain on the truth till the day of ressurection, (sahih muslim),
They say the East is the land of the Ambiyaa, and the West is the land of Awliyya. Whoever said this has spoken the truth.
On Jul 6, 2008, Nasir said:
Masha Allah
brothers,
.
I learnt a lot about AL-Khidr today. Jazaak Allah
On Oct 5, 2008, yasir said:
well salafis came to purify islam as you people destroyed islam by preaching prophets and saints we says Allah
is the one to be preached is any thing wrong in it i ask you what is the difference between you or jews and christian they also pray there prophets….
On Oct 5, 2008, yasir said:
The description “Salafi” applies to one who truly attaches himself to the Salaf. This attachment is not to an arbitrary single person or group of people. It is an attachment to that which will never err - to the guidance of Muhammad (S), his Sahabai, and their true followers. Likewise, Salafiyyah (the Salafi Da’wah) is not blind following of any particular Shaikh or Imam. It is adherence to the Qur’an and Sunnah as understood and practiced collectively by as-Salaf as-Salih. A true Salafi values Tawhid, singling out Allah
in all acts of worship: in supplication, in seeking aid, in seeking refuge in times of ease and hardship, in sacrifice, in making vows, in fearing and hoping and total reliance, and so on
On Oct 5, 2008, Usooli said:
so the modern day ’salafi da3wah’ is following the prophet (saws) and the salaf..according to whose understanding…let me guess…muhammad ibn abdelwahhab and his ilk, right? whatever they say is quran and sunnah, and whatever they oppose is not in the quran and sunnah.. right?
Let me tell you one thing straight.. the modern day salafiyyah has nothing to do with the Prophet 3alihesalat wasalam and the real salaf… and the proof of this is the very wrong understanding of the concept of worship that pseudo salafis have….
In order to show how far this modern day group is from the Prophet(saws) let us discuss the definition of worship.. my question to all of you salafis out there… define in your own words and from the words of your masters what 3ebada or worship is..and what constitutes it?
inshallah you answer this and we will go step by step…
On Oct 6, 2008, SufyanThawri said:
Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah
Alhamdu lillah, wa salatu wa salaam ala sayyidi rasulillah…
According to the Salafi scholars:
loves and is pleased with, of sayings and actions (of the heart and limbs), whether outward or inward”
“Ibada is all actions that Allah
this is the definition of worship (ibada) according to the salafi scholars, may Allah
ta’ala preserve them.
Salaam.
On Oct 6, 2008, SufyanThawri said:
translation of previous post:
“al-Ibada hiya: kull ma yuhibuhu Allah
wa yardaahu, min al-Aqwaal wal-Af’aal, al-Dhahirati wal Khafiyyah”.
On Oct 6, 2008, Usooli said:
ok very good so we agree with the principle that
worship constitutes of two things: Love of Allah
from the heart or inwards and actions which Allah 
wants from the outside,
worship = love of Allah
from the heart + actions from the limbs
agreed?
in other words…do you agree that in the above equation of worship if one one of the elements is absent, then this worship has not been performed?
like let us say if love is there and action is absent, then there is no worship, and similiarly if action is there but there is no love in the heart then there is again no trace of worship?
…Do we agre with this?
-now about the portion {love of Allah
}, ok you salafiyya what is definition of love in the heart context,&
that makes it up in the heart…?
what are two wings of love of Allah
Answer both questions and you will see how erroneous was ibn abdelwahhab…and how the whole nature and logice of your pseudo salafi cult is based on falsehood..where there would be no doubt afterwards that modern salafiyyah with all its variants ( saudi, ikhwani, suroori, jihadi, madkhali, albani etc. ) are khawarij of this age…
On Oct 7, 2008, yasir said:
as you agreed brother that worship is love from inside and actions from outside if any thing is absent from that the equation is incomplete hence all the muslims believe al-ehsan(which means to do any thing in a best possible way).
actually your questions makes no sense.
why dont you bring out some of the allegations against salafis and also tell me which group you belongs to……
On Oct 7, 2008, Irfan said:
isnt this hadith a proof for khidr being alive?
Abu Sa’id al-Khudri reported that Allah
’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) one day gave a detailed account of the Dajjal and in that it was also included: He would come but would not be allowed to ether the mountain passes to Medina. So he will alight at some of the barren tracts near Medina, and a person who would be the best of men or one from amongst the best of men would say to him: I bear testimony to the fact that you are Dajjal about whom Allah 
’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) had informed us. The Dajjal would say: What is your opinion if I kill this (person), then I bring him back to life; even then will you harbour doubt in this matter? They would say: No. He would then kill (the man) and then bring him back to life. When he would bring tha@ person to life, he would say: By Allah 
, I had no better proof of the fact (that you are a Dajjal) than at the present time (that you are actually so). The Dajjal would then make an attempt to kill him (again) but he would not be able to do that. Abu Ishaq reported that it was said: That person would be Khadir (Allah 
be pleased with him).
Sahih Muslim
The Book Pertaining to the Turmoil and Portents of the Last Hour (Kitab Al-Fitan wa Ashrat As-Sa`ah)
Chapter 19: THE CHARACTERISTIC OF THE DAJJAL AND A BAN ON HIS ENTRY TO MEDINA AND HIS KILLING OF A BELIEVER AND THEN RESTORING HIM TO LIFE
On Oct 7, 2008, yasir said:
A true Salafi actively seeks to remove shirk (polytheism) with all his capacity. He knows that victory is not possible without true Tawhid, and that shirk cannot be fought with the likes of it (i.e., with another form of shirk). A true Salafi adheres to the Sunnah of the Prophet (S) and of his companions after him.
On Oct 7, 2008, yasir said:
A true .Salafi worships Allah
out of a combination of Fear, Hope and Love. Allah 
says (what means): Call upon Him, with Fear and Hope. [Al-Araf 7:56]. And He says (what means): There are people who take [for worship] alleged rivals to Allah 
, loving them as only Allah 
should be loved. But the Believers love Allah 
more than all else. [Al-Baqarah 2:165].
A true Salafi is not of the Khawarij who consider most Muslims to be kafirs (disbelievers) because of committing sins. He is not of the Shiah who revile the Sahabah, who claim that the Qur’an has been altered, who reject the authentic Sunnah, and who worship the Prophet’s Family. He is not of the Qadariyyah who deny qadar (the Divine Decree). He is not of the murjiah who claim that iman is only words without deeds. He is not of the Mu’attilah who deny Allah
’s Attributes. He is not of the Sufis who worship graves and claim Divine incarnation. He is not of the Muqallidun who insist that every Muslim should adhere to the Madth’hab (understanding) of a particular imam or shaikh, even when that madth’hab conflicts with the clear texts of the Qur’an or authentic Sunnah.
Thus the true Salafs are Ahl us-Sunnati wal-Jamaah. They are at-Ta’ifat ul-Mansurah (the Aided, Victorious Group)
On Oct 7, 2008, Usooli said:
Good this is what i wanted to hear…
worship = love from inwards + actions from outwards
and love from inward is futher formed from the combination of hope and fear, or khushoo in other words…
love from inwards = hope + fear
and which builds tawakal
so,
worship = hope + fear + actions…
We both agree upon this..
My question now to you wahhabis, followers of ibn abdelwahhab, and the scholars of najd, why do you declare others mushriks and make takfeer of people whose inwards’ state you are not aware of…
FOR EXAMPLE:
A person going to the grave of some Prophet or saint, and asking him something, but if in his inwards his hope, fear and tawakal is on Allah
to fulfill, then how he is a mushrik according to the definition of worship upon which we have agreed?
A person stuck in a desert and asks the angels help, but his inward hope, fear, tawakaal is all upon Allah
and sees Him as the sole Nafi3 and Dhar’, how is he a mushrik or worshipping someone esle beside Allah 
, as we agreed that the definition of worship is a combination of (Fear+hope)+ actions, such that one element absent of this will render worship nill and absent?
If a person standing, prostrating or bowing to someone, but their inward they are not doing it out of khushoo’ ( hope / fear) then how is he a mushrik?
Remember
worship = hope & fear + actions… and together they are meant to Allah
only.
On Oct 7, 2008, Usooli said:
>>>He is not of the Sufis who worship graves and claim Divine incarnation. He is not of the Muqallidun who insist that every Muslim should adhere to the Madth’hab (understanding) of a particular imam or shaikh, even when that madth’hab conflicts with the clear texts of the Qur’an or authentic Sunnah.
Thus the true Salafs are Ahl us-Sunnati wal-Jamaah. They are at-Ta’ifat ul-Mansurah (the Aided, Victorious Group)
<<<<
spare yourself from being a laughing stock. The 4 imams knew far better the Quran and Sunnah than either you or any of your wahhabi pseudo shaykhs. The Prophet(saws) required the Muslim to attach to the siwad al a3dhaam of his followers, who are all either followers of a Madhahb, confirm tasawuff/organized science of tazkiyaten nafs through transmission, and who are either Ashari, Maturidi, or Mufawwid. You claim ahlat tasawuff as grave worshippers whereas you have forgotten, that they are the ones who have conveyed the deen to you, as most of this ummah’s scholars including the likes of the mufassir Ibn Katheer and Imam as-Suyuti were of them, and what you declare falsely as grave worship, were respects and communication to the deceased, approved by the Prophet(saws), his companions after him, and the tabieen…
You claim yourself a follower of the Quran and Sunnah, and the Salaf, what do you say of the hadith of blind man and Uthman ibn hanif, authentically reported, which according to the understanding of ibn abdel wahab’s followers it s shirk? and the many otehr authentically reported narrations which is against your beliefs?
Taaifatul Mansura lol, rather you are the khawarij al 3asr, from the accursed land of Najd, from the people of boastfulness, riyaa and 3ajab, whose manners and actions are like qaroon… and who burn themselves with their extremism, AND about whom the Prophet(saws) warned.. you are mujasima and your salaf are the likes of Muqatil ibn Sulaiman and Dhul Khuwaisira..
MY CHALLENGE TO ALL YOU WAHHABIS OUT THERE:
if you truely claim that you are upon haqq, give me one chain of teachers for any of your scholars that go back to the Prophet(saws)? Remember for the true Ahlas sunnah, the people of tasawuff, the siwad al a3dham of this ummah, there are many many chains which they can bring and which would have no doubts, can you do the same for your own scholars oh wahhabiyya? So who is the mutasil and who is the maqto3?
On Oct 8, 2008, yasir said:
worship = love from inwards + actions from outwards
and love from inward is futher formed from the combination of hope and fear, or khushoo in other words…
yes there is no doubt but all the intensions is only for Allah
not for any one else the primary goal is tauheed all the other things are secondary…
I dont know who told you that we follow ibn wahab we only follow Quran and sunnah any thing matches with it we say ahlun wa sahlan any thing which is against it we throw it on the wall…
asking from any one either it is prophet or saint or an angel is shirk here is what Quran says :
Allah
says in the Holy Quran Chapter 16 Surah Nahl verse 20-21:All the other beings, whom the people invoke with Allah 
, create nothing! Nay, they are themselves created. They are DEAD, not living, and they do not at all know themselves when they shall again be raised to life!
yes worship means hope+fear=actions
but remember hope that Allah
is there to hear him fear is only from Allah 
alone and actions which shows intension. So every thing is for Allah 
alone……
On Oct 8, 2008, yasir said:
well all the grave worshippers have this one old daif hadith of a blind man but when we check the narrater of this hadith it is abu jafar raazi. Ibn Hajar after summarizing writes that Abu Jafar Raazi is a truthful person but has a bad/weak memory. [Ref: Taqreeb ut Tahzeeb].so it is unacceptable according to many scholars.
well lets debate rather than accuse each other as you see i never bring any allegations against you accept with clear proves you said tawassul is allowed i challenge you bring out the verses from the Quran and authentic hadith and then wait for my reply INSHAALLAH by the grace of Allah
i will show you haq.
Abu Hurairah narrated that The Prophet (saws) said: ‘May Allah
curse Jews and Christians for they turned the graves of their Prophets into places of worship’.” (Muslim Bukhari and Muslim)
“When My servants ask you concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them). I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calls on Me’ let them also, with a will, listen to My call, and believe in Me, that they may walk in the right way ” [Al-Baqarah:186]
On Oct 10, 2008, zaahid said:
How can I contact you, Usooli
On Oct 10, 2008, Usooli said:
>>>I dont know who told you that we follow ibn wahab we only follow Quran and sunnah any thing matches with it we say ahlun wa sahlan any thing which is against it we throw it on the wall…<<>asking from any one either it is prophet or saint or an angel is shirk here is what Quran says :
Allah
says in the Holy Quran Chapter 16 Surah Nahl verse 20-21:All the other beings, whom the people invoke with Allah 
, create nothing! Nay, they are themselves created. They are DEAD, not living, and they do not at all know themselves when they shall again be raised to life!
<<<
there is where you make the mistake, what you are implying now from your arguement is that mere action, (without ta